"I want the country to discuss "War and peace," not some rubbish"
Moscow theaters have several performances of "War and Peace" in their repertoire, and no one is bothered by this, so why is everyone discussing two parallel film projects based on Tolstoy's novel, Sergei Ursulyak asks. After two years of preparation, he has just started filming, which coincided with the holding of the 34th Window to Europe Russian Film Festival in Vyborg. Ursulyak is the president of the festival, but he could only come to the opening and closing, the rest of the days he was at the site of War and Peace. Izvestia talked with Sergey Vladimirovich about why he is not worried about competing with Sarik Andreasyan's project, whether it was so easy to "open wallets" for his film and what he lacks in modern Russian cinema.
"Watching a movie about a world you don't like is kind of weird"
— This may sound harsh, but please tell me.: Are you interested in watching modern Russian cinema at all?
— How to say it... Of course, my addictions, my true love, are in the distant past. The excitement that I had when I watched the films of Menshov, Gaidai, Mikhalkov, Motyl, I no longer have. But I think it's not so much about the movies, but just about age. I'm watching new movies, but only in fragments. Out of 10 films, I can find one decent one. I can't say that I'm watching from beginning to end. As soon as I understand the principle and the way it's done, I lose interest, and I'm not really interested in what the ending will be.
Directed by Sergey Ursulyak
— Is there something wrong with Soviet cinema?
— I still can't understand many phenomena of Soviet cinema. Why does it still affect us so much? It seems to me that in Soviet cinema, even in the most tragic and problematic, there was a sense of acceptance of the world in which you live. With all his problems. But now, I think there's a feeling that we're all suicidal, that we don't like the world we live in. And watching a movie about a world you don't like is kind of weird.
I want to live in the world of "Irony of Fate", and I want to live in the world of "The Diamond Hand", and even in the world of the film "My Friend Ivan Lapshin", although the main character is killed there, I want to. People often meet me and say: "Liquidation", "Liquidation", "Liquidation"... But in that film there is no special drama, plot, detective story, love, it just creates a world in which you want to live.
— Don't you think it's more than that? Despite the crisis period (and such periods usually give rise to talents, utterances, waves), we see that in cinema there is rather a sense of some kind of confusion, confusion, but as if there is nothing that people would like to say, would say, would shout?
— I think there are too many restrictions for cinema right now, including internal ones. This is the first one. Secondly, there is a problem of selecting those who should be allowed to shoot. Now they prefer the negotiable, the compromise-like. I would say that there are few real violent people. When I hear today that where are the new "Cranes Are Flying" and "Ascension", then I need to remember the difficulties with which these films were launched, filmed, and accepted. But the main thing is that these films were given the opportunity to be shot. Now such statements are being suppressed at the stage of further planning.
A shot from the movie "Cranes are flying"
— And now there are films that were allowed to be shot: this time in Vyborg they showed two paintings that had been on the shelf for two years.
— Only when there are a large number of films made by free people, in a free relationship with the material, with a point of view, with a question, when there are no internal and external barriers, then there will definitely be some discoveries within this number. It is impossible to get five masterpieces by making five films. But out of 125 paintings, you can score five good ones.
— Many directors have left Russia. They don't seem to have any restrictions, but we don't see a wave of vibrant immigrant cinema.
— I do not know about emigrant films, I do not watch everything that comes out. Besides, maybe it's my misconception, but it seems to me that cinema is too connected, oddly enough, with being in the place you're talking about. It has to do with mentality, with language, with some other things that are lost in isolation.
I may be wrong, but it seems to me that it is not worth waiting for discoveries from what was shot in exile, outside the Homeland. It is with great regret that I speak about those who are not here right now, and I would really like them to shoot in Russia. It's no coincidence that none of our directors and actors could make a career in the West, not even Mikhail Chekhov. This does not mean that they were poor, but it is incomparable to what they could do here.
"I don't need to chase after second associations"
— When films about covid are released today, they are perceived as yesterday's newspapers. The feeling of the moment is gone. You started working on "War and Peace" two years ago, and you're shooting now, when this plot falls on modern times, but what if in two years, when the series is released, the situation in the country will change? What if today's feeling suddenly turns out to be yesterday's too?
— If I were to film a script written three years ago, I would have almost no doubt about what you are saying. But "War and Peace" survived everything and remained "War and Peace." Even when the book came out, she was already talking about what happened decades ago. But the problems, the search for oneself, the relationships between people, types, characters — all this has remained unchanged. That won't change in four years.
A shot from the TV series "War and Peace"
Another thing is that I have to fill these general topics with specific content, specific living energy, characters, and types. I have to make them close to today's viewers, but without trivializing it, roughly bringing it closer to modernity, picking up direct associations and hints. This is not necessary, because what the novel is about has been settled and cannot become obsolete.
Unlike when I was making a movie about today. Actually, that's why I don't take pictures.: Before you know it, everything has already changed, and what seemed interesting, relevant, and poignant will no longer be so tomorrow.
— Isn't this feeling inevitable? After all, the moment when you make a movie passes through you, gets into everything?
— It passes, but there is some kind of deep cleansing with a large piece. I went through it on "The Quiet Don" and "Life and Destiny". Associations with the present day are born there and will continue to be born, because the works do not become obsolete and have been filtered by time.
I hope the same thing will happen with War and Peace. I don't have to chase after momentary associations, because the book already has everything. I need to fill it with life—giving energy - acting, human, relationship.
The difficulty with any film adaptation is that we watch it as if through the glass of an aquarium. And I need everything to spill out from there, so that what is happening excites the people who are sitting at the screens. I do not know how to achieve this, but I am trying. If this happened, then the viewer's intellect and imagination are already working, who understands that it was the same then as it is now.
— When you were offered to shoot "War and Peace", did you have a feeling that you had already shot it, that "Life and Destiny" was "War and Peace" of the 20th century, and everything had moved there? Did you have a feeling that you would be talking about the same thing a second time?
— Oddly enough, no. I shot "Life and Destiny" about my own thing. And I hope to make "War and Peace" about my own. I was rather surprised by this offer, because I grew up watching the film adaptation of Sergei Fedorovich Bondarchuk and it seemed to me: there is a film, why else?
I didn't have that feeling with "The Quiet Don" because Sergei Gerasimov's film passed me by because of my age. But in the case of "War and Peace," I remember my feelings from that movie all too well. It was a big blow to me that today's audience, as it turned out, was not watching Bondarchuk's film. It seemed strange to me, but it's true. It means that a whole layer of culture has gone. The BBC, of course, has made its own adaptation, but it's as if we were filming, for example, Gone with the Wind.
A shot from the TV series "Life and Destiny"
It seems to me that the task is to bring this book back into the discussion circle, this is important, it needs to be opened today.
— We see that exactly the same thing is happening with Odyssey today. Christopher Nolan made everyone read The Odyssey in different translations and returned the book to the readers.
— This is a huge and very noble task. You may or may not like the movie. But the country where Tolstoy's "War and Peace" is discussed is still a different country than the one where they discuss some rubbish. Let them discuss the unsuccessful film adaptation, let them argue about Tolstoy, about the book, about the characters and ideas. But it will still be a conversation about "War and Peace"!
— In this sense, is it good that there will be two film adaptations at once as two reasons for such a conversation?
— It's good, because these are different audiences, different people did it, different artists. Even just comparing one with the other will be interesting.
"When Andreasyan celebrates the premiere, I will be in the midst of filming"
— Are you following Sarik Andreasyan's film adaptation? For example, you see what kind of ensemble he has, and you think, "I wonder how he thought this actor could play that character? It's strange that it hadn't occurred to me."
— Absolutely not, these are parallel worlds. I know who plays for him, because everyone writes about it. Well, thank God. The fact that someone will watch Sarik Andreasyan's film and find out that the war of 1812 ended with the victory of the Russians will not hurt me. I'm not fighting for this spoiler.
A shot from the film "War and Peace", dir. Sarik Andreasyan
Rimas Tuminas's play "War and Peace" was staged in Moscow five years ago. Peter Fomenko's play "War and Peace" was on. There was an opera by Prokofiev staged by Andrei Konchalovsky, "War and Peace." And Yura Grymov directed "War and Peace." It didn't stop anyone from living, you know? On the contrary, it was very interesting. Tuminas' performance was great in its own way. Fomenko's performance was amazingly done: although only the first chapters of the novel were taken there, but how detailed it was, amazingly done, how it was played! Please, two different readings. But it's lucky that you can go and see both. So why does this argument arise in the case of cinema: "How? There is a reference film adaptation!" What kind of reference film adaptation? There is no such thing in art at all!
— But in Hollywood, it often happened that if a film based on a work or on a specific topic was released, all other similar projects were postponed for several years, even if great masters wanted to make them.
— By a few, but not by 60! And it's not accompanied by such curses. The French film Les Miserables every five years, and no one says that Lino Ventura is not Jean Gabin after all. All the major artists played Jean Valjean. And nothing happens, everyone is alive and well, because "Outcasts" are part of the culture.
— Will you go to the cinema to see Sarik Andreasyan's film?
— In principle, I don't really go to cinemas.
— And if they invite you to the premiere?
"Of course not. I don't even go to premieres. Besides, I think I'll be in the middle of filming when Sarik Andreasyan celebrates the premiere.
— In general, it is logical when we hear about "War and Peace" that there should be a film version combined in several films. Like Bondarchuk's.
— Bondarchuk did not make the series. These were four full-length films, and at first he planned to make three, and the idea of the fourth arose already during the preparation.
— Technically, this is the series.
— This is by our standards. In fact, it's still four films. In any case, no, I didn't have that thought. Moreover, I believe that it is still possible to put a novel into four films, but King Vidor's version, which preceded Bondarchuk, did not convince me.: everything is very simplified there, it takes a lot. If anyone knows how to make it all in one movie, let them try.
A shot from the TV series "War and Peace"
— You have 12 episodes, which is just for four three—hour films.
— It is possible, of course, but the question is who will show it in cinemas. We know what today's rental is.
"It's very difficult to find young actors for the main roles"
— You had two years before filming. How did you spend them? What was the most important thing in the preparation process?
— The most difficult part was the casting. It is very difficult to find young actors for the main roles today. I don't know how well I've done with it, but there's still a lot of work ahead. The second problem is meeting the allocated budget. That is, it's always a problem, but "War and Peace" is a particularly expensive film.
A shot from the TV series "War and Peace"
— It seems that if Sergey Ursulyak shoots "War and Peace", all doors and all wallets should open at once.
— This is a misconception. No wallet opens by itself. Not all of them open, and those open with effort. Factories did not suddenly begin to work on the production of fabric for sewing clothes, and gold seamstresses did not appear out of nowhere to embroider uniforms. And the cavalry regiment did not arrive at my disposal, as it was with Sergei Fedorovich Bondarchuk. Everything is a little different now.
But for me, casting was still the most difficult thing. For example, it was obvious that the French should be played by the French. And as a result, they are really played by the French. And you can't mix them with Russian actors. If you have six marshals in the frame, played by the French, and the seventh is played by a Russian, the eye immediately notices this.
A shot from the TV series "War and Peace"
— But right now, what is the main problem, besides the fact that summer is rapidly disappearing and shifts are sorely lacking?
— Since there are a lot of location filming and a busy schedule, it is important that the weather does not interfere with us. Six rainy days in a row — and the whole schedule falls apart. The artists also have their own schedule — their other jobs, performances and other things. Although for me personally, the main problem is how to make it no worse than I could, you know? Not brilliant, not amazing, but exactly — no worse than I could have. Without reference to circumstances, lack of something. Just so I can say, I, exactly, couldn't have done it better no matter how hard I tried.
Переведено сервисом «Яндекс Переводчик»
