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- "It is impossible to cut off such branches as Vishnevskaya and Rostropovich on the tree of our culture"
"It is impossible to cut off such branches as Vishnevskaya and Rostropovich on the tree of our culture"
While technology promises digital immortality to modern humans, the names of those who have long earned this immortality are disappearing unnoticeably. That is why Vladimir Khotinenko takes up the film about Galina Vishnevskaya, without which it is impossible to imagine Russian art. At the same time, the director is thinking about a world where a hero can exist as an avatar — three decades later, he wants to make a sequel to the film Makarov, where Sergei Makovetsky's character will exist in the neurospace. Vladimir Khotinenko spoke in an exclusive interview with Izvestia about the moral choice AI puts humans in front of, why Mstislav Rostropovich was an incredible bully, as well as about boogie-woogie on the accordion, which almost deprived the country of one of its main directors.
"I believe in the signs of fate"
— Vladimir Ivanovich, have you already started shooting a film about Galina Vishnevskaya?
— Unfortunately, no. We have done serious preparatory work, we have found artists — Vladimir Vdovichenkov, Alexandra Ursulyak, Galina Tyunina, Evgenia Simonova, but cinema always depends on money. We have been allocated a small part of the funds for the preparatory period. We presented the film at the Cinema Foundation. Now we are waiting for a decision on the final financing.
Vladimir Khotinenko and Galina Tyunina
Is it true that you've been working on this movie for ten years?
— It would probably sound very romantic if I had been preparing for ten years. But no. Many years ago, I met Galina Vishnevskaya. I've been making movies about her for the last two years. You see, sometimes this romance overrides the essence of the issue. That, they say, the director has been working on the project for many years — please satisfy. In this case, it is more important for me to understand why I decided to make a movie about Vishnevskaya.
— Really, for what?
— I believe in the signs of fate. Frankly, I didn't think that I would make a movie about Galina Vishnevskaya. But one day I received an offer from producer Natalia Ivanova. And I started to dive into the topic. And soon I discovered that these two incredible figures, People's Artists of the USSR — Galina Vishnevskaya and Mstislav Rostropovich — had disappeared from the cultural space of the new generation. Now few people remember about the wonderful creative couple. And even one well-known producer responded to my suggestion to take part in the project in a casual tone: "Who knows?" And it just seems wrong to me. It is impossible to cut off such branches as Vishnevskaya and Rostropovich on the tree of our culture.
Opera singer Galina Vishnevskaya and accompanist - renowned cellist Mstislav Rostropovich
"Rostropovich will not be in the main action of the film"
— Why are you interested in the figure of Galina Vishnevskaya, and not her husband, a great cellist?
— Galina Vishnevskaya is not just a singer, but a bright person. At first, I was offered to make a serial biopic based on the book "Galina. A life story." I refused because I was more interested in the fate of the future opera diva. The book begins with an episode when Galya, as a girl, dove from the shore into the river to argue with the boys. I've watched a lot of her interviews. In half of them, Vishnevskaya referred to childhood. And it wasn't easy for her: she was raised by her grandmother, and her parents had the most difficult relationship. And then, during the siege, Grandma burned down in front of her eyes. I think this image haunted Galina Pavlovna all her life.
It would not be superfluous to recall Anna Akhmatova. "If only you knew what kind of trash poetry grows out of, without knowing shame." I wanted to show where everything came from this girl, to reveal the intricacies of her fate. We will not have a biopic, but a chronicle of life, permeated with artistic fantasy. A story told by a girl who imagines her future.
— You remembered Akhmatova for a reason.
— Yes, the fates of these two women are invisibly intertwined. In the early 1960s, Anna Andreevna was seriously ill. And suddenly, on the radio, she heard "Brazilian Bahiana No. 5" by Heitor Vila-Lobos, sung by a young Galina Vishnevskaya. Imagine, this performance strengthened Akhmatova, gave her strength and inspired her. She wrote the most poignant poem, "Listening to the Singing." Perhaps I will call the painting "The Enchanted Voice" a line from it.
— Who will play Vishnevskaya?
— We have a very good actress. I am deeply convinced that she is definitely capable of playing Vishnevskaya — this is Evgenia Leonova. And there is also a little girl for the role of young Gali.
— And who was invited to play Rostropovich?
— Rostropovich will not be in the main action of the film, he will appear in the epilogue. Mstislav Rostropovich is a great cellist, an incredible bully, and a very free man. Every time his last name is mentioned, I remember that photograph from the White House: Mstislav Leopoldovich is sitting on the couch, with a submachine gun in one hand, with the other hugging a boy who has fallen asleep on his shoulder. In August 1991, the musician flew in from Germany, and the coup began. Rostropovich did not think about himself, he immediately went to the White House. You have to be a real person to commit such an act. This cannot but arouse respect.
"We all got out of Gogol's Overcoat"
— Do you think such personalities have disappeared?
— We always need people, whom we will call heroes later. There are not enough of them now, the texture has been shredded. And I want to bring the characters back to the cultural space.
— You said that modern cinema lacks heroes. Where can I find them?
— The fact is that time creates heroes. This does not mean that I have to sit, stare at the ceiling, catch flies and wait for someone to give me an idea for my character. We have to try to invent them. That's what Balabanov did: he came up with a guy, shot the movie "Brother" about him. And Sergey Bodrov, who played him, is still a hero. The monument has now been erected in Yekaterinburg. But this is a special case.
Dostoevsky was also tormented by this thought. He said that he knew only one person who was perfect in every sense, and that was Don Quixote. And Cervantes' character inspired him to create his Don Quixote, Myshkin. Paradoxically, the "Idiot" also became a hero. Art offers a person, and then society and time accept it or not.
— But what about the real heroes who defend their homeland?
— Let's recall the famous movie "The Communist" with Evgeny Urban. Many people recognized themselves and their loved ones in this character. And the picture sounded because that was the actor: it wasn't the theme that was important, but personality, charisma, and power. New images are offered by art, but they must coincide with the time or become the personification of a premonition of something important.
— It's also important what we mean by the word "hero".
— After all, we all came out of Gogol's Overcoat. And that such a seemingly insignificant human booger like Akaky Akakievich Bashmachkin is he a hero? And he's a hero.
— It turns out that the creators have a great responsibility?
— What a thing! But often they don't think about it. Well, maybe that's a good thing. Otherwise, they'll think, "What responsibility do I have," and they won't want to do it. Creators should create, but subconsciously understand that you are actually in charge.
"The new painting already has a name"
— Two years ago, you talked about plans to make a sequel to the cult film Makarov starring Sergei Makovetsky. It's been 33 years since that picture was released. Will there still be a sequel?
— That's a very good question. The thing is, there are things that just live in you. But that doesn't mean at all that I won't make a sequel to Makarov. It's just that circumstances have almost developed so far. But the name of the new painting already has — "Neuro-Makarov. It's time for the evil clowns."
A shot from the movie "Makarov"
—Neuro?" Will you use artificial intelligence?
- yes. And I have already involved my students in the work on the film.
— What will happen to Makovetsky's hero? After all, there was an open ending in the film: is Makarov dying or not?
— I'll tell you a little bit about the plot. In the finale, Makarov shoots himself with a Makarov pistol. But he still has a son, a little boy named Oska, who speaks Mandelstam's poetry. And now 30 years have passed: the guy has grown up, become an advanced IT specialist and decided to create an avatar of his dad, the hero Sergei Makovetsky, in order to communicate with him. When I imagined that I was talking to my dad, I got goosebumps.
— Yes, the fear and horror of such a fantasy.
— I presumptuously declare that Makarov is the most modern project in existence today. He's alive and moving. We can react to what artificial intelligence brings to our lives, and every day it will become more and more interesting. I want to explore this permanently. When something went wrong, Yosya makes an avatar and goes to that reality where she can talk to her father. And to understand whether it is possible to bring something human into this reality. I've already thought of so many things, and life will still throw up ideas.
— Why would he invent a new reality, make an avatar, when he can go and sort out the problems with a psychologist?
— No, no, no, no. He doesn't invent a new reality, because his father has his own world, in which he is a journalist. In that neuroreal reality, Makovetsky's hero is struggling: the Ostankino Tower stands on Red Square, and he wants to get rid of this crazy reality. My students at VGIK created such a picture with the help of AI — I'll tell you, it's a complete plague (laughs).
— How did Sergey Makovetsky react to the prospect of becoming an avatar?
— So far, so good. Some things can be AI, and some things can't. And that's why he's faced with the task of playing a human in a neurospace: he's never played like this. The task is simply fantastic. The film will feature actors from the first film — Vladimir Ilyin, Sergey Parshin.
— The other day, the State Duma adopted a bill "On supporting the development of artificial intelligence technologies in the Russian Federation." Nikita Mikhalkov told Izvestia that the parliamentarians had done it hastily. Now it will be possible to train AI with the help of already created works of art, literature, and cinema and not pay anything to copyright holders for it. How do you feel about this?
— This topic is endless. I've been living in it for a long time and studied it in detail. Therefore, I chose a direction for cinema where, God willing, there will be no conflicts with copyright holders. Laws are laws, but there are also moral criteria in these matters. To what extent do I have the right to dispose of someone else's image?
— Who owns the avatar?
— Well, they draw caricatures, and no one asks about their rights. So it is with neuroimaging. They'll say, "It doesn't matter whose rights they have. I'll just do it." And go find the tracks. Pandora's box is open, and that's it — we live in another world. So far, I'm relying on normal human principles. I will try to make sure that this moral problem does not make me blush. It's hard to get away from the oncoming civilization. For me, this is not a secondary issue. And that's why I'll try to make it not scandalous, but substantive.
"Having sung "Goodbye America", the Nautilus group became a hero of that time"
— You are a member of the expert council of the new Diamond Butterfly Film Award. Nikita Mikhalkov called it a kind of alternative to the Oscar. When you vote for a film, do you choose not just the best one, but support a new cinematic philosophy?
— The Diamond Butterfly has just been born. She needs to find her place, her niche, and shape up. But this requires talented and diverse films. Of course, we always want something new from cinema. But that's never a lot. The main thing is that I'm not going to decide whether it's for the ages or not. I want to know how modern this statement sounds in space now.
What is the challenge facing art? I am definitely impressed by Fyodor Mikhailovich Dostoevsky's point of view: he said that art is needed to help a person live in this world, to give meaning to it, because it sometimes seems absurd, meaningless, dramatic. For some reason, people are willing to suffer by building up their muscles. That's what always makes me laugh terribly. And suffer for the soul?
— Few people know, but your fate closely echoes Russian rock. Your name is inscribed in the history of the Sverdlovsk rock club.
— There was such a thing. For the first time I shot "Nautilus Pompilius" with Vyacheslav Butusov not in a music video, but in a feature film — this is the painting "Mirror for a Hero" from 1987. After appearing on the screen, the band was officially recognized. After singing "Goodbye America", the Nautilus group became a hero of that time.
— The Sverdlovsk rock club recently celebrated its 40th anniversary. Were you present at the celebration?
— Unfortunately, I couldn't. I'm not actually insisting that I was one of the founders. But, by and large, the history of the rock club is connected with me. Do you want me to confess to you? I started as a rocker 15 years before the rock club— in 1971. I had a group at the architectural institute called the Time Machine. A group with the same name also gathered at the Moscow Architectural Institute, which later became famous.
— So two "Time Machines" were formed at the same time?
— Yes, and without saying anything, the name appeared. I played in a Sverdlovsk band, I wrote songs.
— What prevented you from making a career as a rock musician?
— To a certain extent, common sense and a premonition of fate. My older brother played the boogie-woogie accordion. Looking at him, I wanted to play the same way, boogie-woogie. I've learned. He even played in the orchestra. I've already forgotten the whole complicated form. But if you wake me up at night and give me the accordion, I'll play boogie woogie with my eyes closed.
At one time, I was the champion of the Kazakh SSR in high jump among schoolchildren. I jumped pretty well — I took 190 centimeters. But when I saw the guys from Lansky's school at the USSR championship, I realized: "Volodya, these wonderful guys jump better than you. Do something else."
It's the same in music. I objectively realized that this was not my plan. And he was seriously passionate about architecture. But thanks to this particular hobby, cinema appeared in my life. This is a separate epic — you can write a novel. A premonition of fate is very important.
— Is it possible to learn this?
— It's impossible. I even tell the students: guys, try not to miss the open door. Intuition and luck are very necessary in any business.
Переведено сервисом «Яндекс Переводчик»
