"It is necessary to ban indiscriminate criticism"

Last season in Russian football was rich in refereeing scandals. Because of this, the head of the refereeing department of the Russian Football Union (RFU), Milorad Majic, was constantly criticized by clubs, experts and the media. Nevertheless, the RFU extended the contract with the Serbian specialist for a year. In an interview with Izvestia, Pavel Kamantsev, chairman of the judicial committee of the union, commented on the current level of work of domestic arbitrators, assessed the international prospects of 29-year-old judge Inal Tanashev, and also commented on the work to clean up the case due to criminal cases involving the Torpedo and Khimki football clubs and the closure of the Interior Ministry audit of the Samara governor's loud statement about debt. 36 million rubles of the local "Wings of the Soviets" before the judges.

"We don't force anyone to watch World Cup matches"

— To what extent does the RFU require referees to closely monitor the work of their colleagues at the World Cup?

— Majic has one common message: You have to watch football. Because one of the main elements for referees, which is not codified in any way, is understanding the game. They need to understand modern football, the tactics of the teams, and their behavior. If you don't have enough time to watch, if you focus only on your matches that you serve inside Russia, you won't grow into an international professional.

We don't force anyone to watch World Cup matches, but when we analyze the work of referees who are going to be promoted, we pay attention to how much they are inclined to study, introspect and analyze other matches. For example, the referee sued 12 matches in the spring — we conduct 12 debriefing sessions with him, where we can assess which moments from these games he watched, how he explains his decisions and what examples from other matches he gives. All this clearly shows how much he is able to analyze his own and other people's decisions. We are always in favor of referees watching as many matches as possible and understanding how decisions are made.

— When you communicate with Majic and Cakir, do you get information from them about how interested FIFA is in Russian referees, do you ask them who they single out from our country, who can be appointed to European cups and international matches, when will they be allowed?

- of course. I will also say that when we hold training camps for referees, we invite instructors from FIFA and UEFA to attend them. As a rule, they come to us for two or three days. Therefore, they have an idea about Russian arbitrators. In addition, there is an international judging community where instructors and supervisors share opinions about judges and video clips of their work. Based on this, some instructors often turn to Mazhich and Chakyr, asking what they think about this or that Russian judge.

People from the team [the heads of the FIFA and UEFA refereeing committees] came to us Pierluigi Collina, who are involved in the World Cup. Among them is [Massimiliano] Irrati, chief of VAR. And they have a complete understanding of our judges, including among the younger generation. The leaders of the FIFA judiciary see great potential due to the fact that there are now a large number of young people in Russia.

— Are they singling out someone in particular?

— I won't give you my last name. But we were told that there are good guys among the Russian youth whom they would use in the international arena. This can also be seen in Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates and Kuwait. Our referees are happy to be invited to the games of the championships of these countries. And instructors from FIFA and UEFA are also working there, who also report to the management on the work of Russian referees.

— In the countries of the Middle East, arbitrators of the older generation like Sergey Karasev mostly worked. Are any of the young people, such as Inala Tanasheva, planning to be invited there?

— Inala first needs to get a FIFA badge. Yes, he had a great time last season in the Russian Premier League and convinced everyone, including us, that he was worthy of the status of a FIFA referee. But there are formalities, and we still need to get this badge.

— Does its receipt depend on the disbandment of Russian referees and Russian football in general?

— No, we can still submit a list of names for the status of FIFA referees every year. This year is no exception. Therefore, some of the Russian judges will leave this list, and others will be added. I think Inal is one of the obvious candidates for inclusion in the list, which we will discuss the other day at a meeting of the RFU refereeing committee, where the work report for last season will be approved.

I must say that not only Tanashev, but also a number of other young judges made us very happy. And not only in the field, but also on the VAR. Many of them were trained from the very beginning, including working with the video assistant system of judges. Since young people tend to be friends with computers from an early age, it's quite easy for them to do this kind of work. It is clear that when they judge big matches, it will become harder for them under stress. But from the point of view of owning a technical tool and a protocol, they look very good.

"It is not so difficult to find a match between two teams in Europe from countries that treat Russia adequately and neutrally"

— When Sergey Karasev traveled to Switzerland in September 2023 for the UEFA referee training camp, it seemed that the dismantling of Russian football could begin with our referees, but in the end none of them were called to such events anymore. Is it possible to say that if referees are allowed to participate in international matches, it will be only together with national teams and clubs?

— No, I don't think these are related things. Perhaps FIFA and UEFA have a roadmap on how to gradually prepare the public, which has a negative attitude towards Russia, for the return of our teams to European cups and international national team tournaments. I can understand European officials who don't want to take unnecessarily drastic steps. But I think the admission of referees is one of the first steps towards returning, since it is not so difficult to find a match between two teams in Europe from countries that treat Russia adequately and neutrally. Moreover, in the same year, 2023, there was an experience when Vera Opeikina's brigade judged the Women's League of Nations match between Kazakhstan and Armenia.

At the same time, it is a shame that many young referees, whom we have recently trained, are not invited to international children's and youth tournaments. I wish their careers had clearer prospects at least at this tournament to begin with. So that the same Tanashev and Rafael Shafeev, who have fully grown to this level, have the opportunity to gain experience in such an atmosphere of international games. Moreover, we see that the Arab countries want to see Sergey Karasev, Kirill Levnikov, Sergei Ivanov and Shafeev at their matches.

I would like to give the same experience to the young referees, but there are still difficulties finding international matches for them. Thanks in this regard to colleagues from Belarus, who invited Shafeev to the match of their national team (June 9 friendly match against Burkina Faso. — Ed.). This is how we collect the opportunity for our judges to gain international experience bit by bit, so that after the debriefing they are as ready as possible to join the work at high-level tournaments.

"Every club has direct working contact with the RFU"

— After the refereeing scandal in March, when Pavel Kukuyan mistakenly awarded a penalty in favor of Zenit in the cup match with Dynamo Makhachkala (1-0), Milorad Majic began to regularly give public assessments of certain decisions of the referees. Did the RFU force him to do this?

— I would not associate this with that match between St. Petersburg and Makhachkala. Moreover, the weekly TV program with his participation was launched back in mid–March (the Russian Cup match Zenit - Dynamo (Makhachkala) was held on March 18. In the winter, that is, before that game, there were discussions that, against the background of all the movements for the ethical cleansing of Russian refereeing, the RFU tactically needed to explain more about certain decisions of the referees. Against the background of the criminal cases related to the refereeing of the Torpedo and Khimki matches, it was necessary to talk more about the work of Russian referees and its positive component.

Milorad was well aware of this himself, so we convinced him to start these public explanations. Besides, his Russian language has become much better than when he first became head of the department. In the early years of his work in the RFU, he could not perform like that. And this was not due to any of his snobbery, but to the fact that one of his incorrect statements or an incorrect translation into Russian could create a scandal out of the blue and damage the RFU and Mazhich personally.

— Don't you think that the long-term closeness of referees and their managers has put them in too vulnerable a position, when they are constantly criticized by coaches, club managers and football players, and the referees cannot respond? As a result, referees seem to be the main evil of Russian football.

— This is a long conversation. My opinion is that indiscriminate criticism should be banned. It is very difficult to introduce this, and the RFU objectively does not want to do this, which I understand and accept. But I think it should be from the point of view of the product of Russian football. Loyalty is prescribed in each product. For example, we always show our loyalty to our teams. Although we often also have something to say in terms of claims. But we are solving this in an operational mode.

Not all clubs follow this. But we decided to use the method of persuasion and individual work with each club. Hopefully, over time, ethics will reach such a level that it will be strange to publicly speak out against it. Because every club has direct working contact with the RFU. And why use the media for this? Unless it's just to cover up their failures.

— Is there no feeling that they will do it anyway? Is it too convenient to explain managerial and coaching failures by allegedly biased refereeing?

— I'm philosophical about this. When we are guilty, we understand it ourselves. And we are working to ensure that the mistakes of the judges do not happen again.

— But as a result, a public background has been created that referees are the main problem of Russian football, although they do their job no better or worse than club managers and coaches. But, for example, Leonid Slutsky could be publicly rude to the judiciary if he found mistakes against the teams, and the judges could not publicly analyze his work as Rubin's coach and his flight to the First League.

— In the context of the criminal cases surrounding the Torpedo and Khimki matches, I cannot say that the clubs have no reason to complain about refereeing. Because they are inside the football community and have certain information about some negative factors. Therefore, together with law enforcement agencies, we will work to clean up what they and we can reach. And after that, I can say that we have done everything in our power, improved the financial component for the judges, created long-term motivation for them, while conducting end-to-end inspections of all their activities. And at the same time I will be able to ask the clubs what they are doing. Then the premise of your question will be justified. In the meantime, there are still remnants of the old days that we are eradicating. Hopefully, we'll eradicate it. And we are close to them.

— Are there many of these rudiments left?

— It's hard to say, because practice has shown that law enforcement agencies have complaints even against judges whose bias we cannot detect. But it turns out that they also had certain agreements.

— But they were encrypted well?

— I think the situation is like this: the match turned out well for those who had a corresponding interest, and the referee worked it out the way he saw the episodes, because he didn't have to come up with anything. But I got a commendation for this work. This may not be a big negative for some, but it undermines trust in the system as a whole and between the clubs in particular. Hence, there is a constant suspicion of each other. We are working with law enforcement agencies to find out the reasons for this distrust.

"The RFU's approach is that we do not interfere in the affairs of clubs"

— In February, the Ministry of Internal Affairs of the Samara Region announced the completion of an investigation launched at the end of 2024 after statements by local governor Vyacheslav Fedorishchev about corruption in football, that one of the Krylia Sovetov employees informed him of a debt of 36 million rubles to persons influencing the judiciary. Can this topic be considered closed for you?

— Let me remind you that the application to law enforcement agencies was submitted by the professional football club Krylia Sovetov. The RFU was not involved in this case in any way in the procedural plan. And our communication with law enforcement agencies was fragmentary in the form of responses to requests. But based on my legal practice, I can say that the termination of some cases, the allocation of materials, additional checks can take a long time and lead, among other things, to the resumption of the case. So anything can happen.

— Did you at least informally find out the name of that Krylia employee, on the basis of whose statement about the debt of 36 million rubles Fedorishchev brought this story to the public?

— Let's wait about six months. According to my unfounded informal feelings, this story is not closed yet.

— Is this person currently working in Russian football?

"Maybe." But I have not delved deeply into this issue. The RFU's approach is that we do not interfere in the affairs of the clubs. We know that there was a statement from Krylia Sovetov to law enforcement agencies. And it also dealt with a number of other issues, in particular, agency payments. However, the RFU behaves here in such a way that no one can accuse us of interfering in the proceedings of clubs in which the club itself did not involve us. But, in my opinion, this case can still go further. Because Krylia's statement was more extensive. And there were a number of aspects that seem promising to me as a lawyer. And I'm interested in the outcome of all this.

— Can there be new movements in judging based on the Krylia Sovetov case?

— In my opinion, no. We analyzed the refereeing of the Krylia Sovetov matches of those times and found nothing. Therefore, I have no objective expectations that anything will come out there.

— Many people attribute those words about the debt of 36 million rubles to Dmitry Kondratov, the former chairman of the board of directors of Pari Nizhny Novgorod, who then, in the fall of 2024, was interviewed for a job at Krylia Sovetov, and recently became the CEO of Fakel. Have you ever discussed with him whether the whole story came from him?

— No, we haven't talked to him since those events.