"We are all gathered on this project not about politics, but about art"
Two-time Oscar nominee, director Konstantin Bronzit presented his new animated film "On Release", created in collaboration with the Canadian studio Lakeside Animation, at the Mayak Film Festival in Gelendzhik. The painting was done for five years, and neither covid nor sanctions prevented it. One of the most famous Russian authors is unhappy with his new film and believes that animation is losing out to feature films already at the start. Bronzit is skeptical about new technologies, notes the predominance of self-taught amateurs in the profession, and cites Merab Mamardashvili with pleasure. About this and many other things — in the interview of the master "Izvestia".
"The Cinema Foundation or the Ministry of Culture never gives the full requested amount"
— Your new animated film "On the discard" tells about the things sent to the landfill. How did this idea come about?
— The idea was suggested by my friend and colleague Dima Vysotsky. For the umpteenth time, he throws me some kind of thought that catches me and then turns into a movie. Moreover, the idea can be very concise, as it was in the "Toilet Story" in 2009. And by the way, last year I also made a new author's short film based on his idea, which no one has seen yet. And so, five years ago, Dima came to me with the idea of the cartoon "On the discard." I really liked his idea, and together we rushed to write the script, and in the end the film turned out.
A frame from the cartoon "On the discard"
— As far as I know, you had difficulties with the budget. What did the film lose because of this?
— Who doesn't have a budget problem? There is not enough money. The Cinema Foundation or the Ministry of Culture never gives the requested amount in full. Always half or only some part. Therefore, production had to be cheaper. As a result, unfortunately, we don't have the technology that I dreamed of seeing this movie in. I had to find compromises. Well, what to do.
— What did you want him to be like?
— It had to be honest 3D computer graphics, so that everything in the frame was as textured and tangible as possible. It seemed to me that this technology was appropriate for this story. It would be a tactilely tangible movie frame. It seems to me that it would work harder, causing more emotions because of a more "truthful" picture.
A frame from the cartoon "On the discard"
Now everything is pretty arbitrary. And the viewer must constantly convince himself and try to believe that this is not a drawing, but real objects. The modern viewer perfectly understands the rules of the animation game and is ready to wade through its conventions. Although I have a feeling that the film has lost a little bit from this. But, by the way, this is a rare case when Dima Vysotsky does not really agree with me.
— The main character is a tie named Mac, a representative of high society. You often choose non—obvious characters - astronauts, cleaners, and now objects. Why?
— All that you have listed is, so to speak, the borderline source data. And as smart people have taught me, you need to work at the poles. It's profitable. Drama requires polarity. The more emotionality you can take out of it. Why, for example, an astronaut? Because it's a scary, dangerous profession. And we all know that. Or a woman who works in the men's room, a cleaner. It's not the most fun and, from the point of view of social cliches, it's not the most honorable thing for a woman to do. A toilet is not a place you can brag about working there. For the viewer, this is deposited in the subcortex and begins to develop in the right direction for the director. Any cinematographer or screenwriter understands the potential of this charge. Another point is that you need to be able to play all these "trump cards" correctly.
A frame from the cartoon "On the discard"
Because with a weak script, as well as a weak direction, you can easily waste all this initial potential. When you have good trump cards in your hands, you need to be able to play them correctly.
— The theme of faith runs through this story like a red thread. Why is she important to you here? Are you a church-educated person?
— No, I'm more of an infinitely doubting agnostic. I can go to the church and put a candle there. I even do it sometimes. But right at this moment, I look at myself as if from the outside with endless irony. But here we are talking about something else — about faith in something very valuable, about "faith in life and in thought," according to Mamardashvili. Most people rely on a certain value system. We fight for it, defend it, and follow it whenever possible. And the conversation from external beauty always turns to internal beauty in an attempt to find the perfect harmony, which, of course, alas, is not achievable. And that's why we, the multipliers, are also following this direction. And this is not about going to church, but about trying to get closer to a person, to their soul.
— A seagull named Jonathan Livingston has become such a wonderful symbol. There is a lot of literature in the cartoon.
— Yes, although this is not a literary story. It's not about books, but it surprisingly fits in well here humorously. Considering that we have a literary-centric country in general, this has a strong effect on the audience.
— Which audience were you targeting: the younger generation or the adults?
— There is no such "special" audience. We're just trying to make an interesting movie. Alas, this is a very vague concept. And here each director relies only on his own ideas about "interesting". It is clear that a five-year-old child will not understand as much as an adult will understand. But it doesn't matter. It is important that there is something in the story for him that will catch and hold his attention. That's exactly what we're fighting for, so that the film has multiple layers, so that anyone who comes to watch it has something to rely on.
"The problem with animation is its sharply lowered emotional background"
— "On the Discard" was created with the participation of the Canadian studio Lakeside Animation. You've come to a covid time. Did it interfere with the relationship?
— The Canadians are great! They did not abandon us, fulfilled all their obligations and went with us to the end. They mostly did a lot of important routine work. No movie will work without her. For example, our artist Roma Sokolov created conceptual backgrounds of the main locations: library, canal, alley. And the Canadians already made additional enlargements and camera angles based on these sketches, painted everything and thus supplied the entire film with backgrounds. They also partially wrote the music.
— Covid is one thing, but politics is another. Were there any talks about ending cooperation after 2022?
— At that moment, of course, we were scared. But they said that we were all gathered on this project not "about politics", but "about art", that they had obligations to us, and they would fully fulfill them. That's why everything worked out for us.
— For the first time, an animated film has been announced in the Mayak competition program. In your opinion, is it fair for animation to compete with feature films?
— You know, there are no written rules here. As Stas Tyrkin, the festival's program director, correctly noted, there are precedents: both Cannes and Berlin are taking full-length animated films into the competition. Stas decided to follow the same modern path and put our animation on a par with the game paintings. And that's great, thanks a lot to him for this bold decision.
I do not exclude that some of our colleagues from the game cinema were slightly taken aback by this. Well, after all, there should be a place for surprise in life. Moreover, let's be aware that animated films cannot compete with game films in any way. The problem with animation is its dramatically lowered emotional background. This is a birth trauma of our profession.
The animated character does not have a ready-made mental content. We have to create it completely from scratch every time. A person, an actor in a feature film, has it by default. A living face, his gaze, even from a photograph, affects us incomparably more strongly than the gaze of even a carefully drawn character. Therefore, any animated character will always lose to a live actor. But that's okay, but we showed our film to a professional audience for the first time on the big screen.
"60-70% of people in the animation film industry are self—taught"
— You often say that Russian animation relies on enthusiasts who work in spite of it. What is the biggest obstacle to the development of the industry today — lack of technology, financing or personnel fatigue?
— As a rule, these are two things. The first is the lack of the right amount of money. There are always few of them. And this is not for the director or the artist to earn a lot. Although I don't see anything wrong with that. Animated films are complex and expensive productions. As soon as there is not enough money, production begins to become cheaper at the expense of quality.
The second problem is the endless shortage of professional staff. Anyway, 60-70% of people in the animation film industry are self—taught and have not completed any courses. And when we all start stewing in the juice of such conditional professionalism, it also affects the quality.
— Why is this happening? Don't they teach you?
— Yes, it seems like even the opposite — there is a feeling that everyone who is not lazy is learning today. No matter how you open social media, someone has opened it again and is advertising their courses. But, apparently, the general level of training in all professional positions is very weak. This is a serious problem all over the world. Often, a person himself has not yet managed to achieve something, has not earned a professional background, but is already rushing to teach. But he doesn't know much yet, and he has nothing to show for it. But people go anyway because they want to study, but there is no particular alternative.
Any education needs consistency and academicism. Well, the main question is, who is the teacher? Everything depends not on the signboard of the educational institution, but on the specific teacher. He may not be related to any serious university, live in the village of Gadyukino and at the same time be a good teacher and teach his own author's online course.
— It seems that artificial intelligence should come to your aid here. Has it become useful for animation?
— Well, as far as I know, there are no training functions assigned to him at all. So far, there are only attempts to assign complex routine production processes to neural networks, which, as I said, is still very expensive in animation. But even this task remains unsolvable today.
— You don't work with artificial intelligence?
— Most of our studios are not. And I do not know those who work, although many are looking in his direction, but so far purely out of curiosity. They are exploring the possibilities of its application. But so far, apart from unprofessional nonsense, I haven't seen anything worthwhile.
— Do you have a favorite cartoon?
— There is. It was shot by Dutch director Michael Dudok de Wit. The film is called "Father and Daughter". It's a very short film, only eight minutes. You can view it on the Internet. This is a great work. Our viewers may be familiar with this director from his feature film "The Red Turtle", which he shot at Hayao Miyazaki's Ghibli Studio.
— If you had the opportunity to create a film without budget restrictions, format, what would this story be like, what would you tell?
"I have no idea." If a bag of money is dropped in front of me now, I'll be confused, because at the moment I don't have a ready-made project to implement. There are only some nebulae in my head. But that's exactly what happens most of the time. Therefore, unfortunately, I will have to say: "Wait, the question is not about money yet. First, I have to formulate my own thought for myself." Because it may turn out that the project will become very important to me, but it will not cost very much. The quality of an idea and its cost often have no connection.
Konstantin Bronzit is a Russian animator. In 1983, he graduated from the B.V. Johanson Art School at the I.E. Repin Institute of Painting, Sculpture and Architecture. He worked as an animation artist at the Lennauchfilm studio, where he made his debut with the animated film "Carousel" (1988). In 1995, he graduated from the Animation Film Directing Department of the Higher Directing Courses (workshop of Fyodor Khitruk). He became widely known for the animated film "On the edge of the Earth" (1999). Since 2009, he has been a member of the American Academy of Motion Picture Arts Oscar. He was nominated for an Oscar in 2009 and 2016 for the films "Bathroom Story — a Love Story" and "We can't Live without Space." Honored Artist of Russia.
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