"We are witnessing the evolution of ecological consciousness"

The fuel oil spill in the Kerch Strait is one of the most serious and major environmental disasters that Russia and the international community have faced in recent years. At the same time, our country continues its dialogue with many countries in the field of protection, rescue and further conservation of rare species of animals and useful natural resources. The head of Rosprirodnadzor, Svetlana Radionova, told Izvestia at the St. Petersburg International Economic Forum why Russia's word on environmental issues always remains weighty.

"If you don't want to be responsible in one place, you will be responsible in another"

— What is the current situation on the beaches of Anapa?

— The situation in Anapa is tense. I would like to answer about Anapa and tell you about children's beaches, but today we are discussing exactly two negligent owners who possessed such rather, as it turned out, terrible weapons like tankers. They were transporting fuel oil and crashed. They didn't do it on purpose, but as a result, we have a big problem that the government commission is dealing with.

A government commission meets weekly, and we discuss the disposal of the exported sand, whether or not to lift [the tanker]. Now it has been decided to cover it all with cofferdams. The President gave a clear task to remove all the fuel oil from the bottom, as a result, to get the remains of these vessels and clean the seashore from pollution. But this year we will all experience the burden of the environmental problem that we have received due to improper handling of dangerous goods.

— The damage amount was estimated at 84 billion rubles.

— Almost 85, yes.

— How was this amount calculated? And do the owners of these vessels have the opportunity to pay off?

— The amount is always calculated the same way, regardless of what event occurred. It is calculated according to the methodology. The methods for water, air and soil are approved by the Ministry of Natural Resources, taking into account the volumes, the place where it happened, and the coefficients — this is a rather complex system. It is publicly available, anyone can take it and calculate it, knowing the source data.

— Do the owners have enough funds?

— We think that they don't have that kind of money in their accounts, they have total property, and they will have to pay for everything they can pay for, because ecology is difficult. If you don't want to be responsible in one place, you will be responsible in another place, you will pay.

— What damage has been done to nature? And how will it recover?

— We took out sand with a lot of fuel oil, we are currently recycling it. Of course, our younger brothers were being restored: more than 400 Red Book birds were injured.

— 400 species?

— No, 400 units, about 7 different types were involved. Rosprirodnadzor quickly provides documents for removal from nature and return. Even in such a difficult moment as such an environmental problem, you still need to obtain documents for the treatment of red Book animals.

We helped volunteers and special rehabilitation centers very actively. Thanks a lot to Svetlana Akulova, mostly her volunteers were organized and mobilized in one place.

— There was Norilsk, now Anapa, and Vladimir Vladimirovich clearly stated that the violator pays. Is there any understanding on the part of the business that you will have to pay a lot anyway?

— Over the past five years, we have actually observed the evolution of environmental awareness. We have changed the environmental legislation — the violator pays. You are quoting this, and we are relaying it and following it closely. We have adopted a law on the impossibility of creating new objects of accumulated raid, we have a "General Cleaning", a national ecology project.

There is a significant change in environmental legislation. Following the President's instructions, the Government has developed and ensured the adoption of more than 300 regulations over the years.

A business thinks in two categories: a responsible business thinks in terms of responsibility initially, and the second one considers money. Both are entitled to their point of view, but it's better to count the money first. Now everyone understands that damage calculation is no longer some kind of mythical procedure. This is something that will catch up with anyone who is a polluter, and business understands this. Many people prefer to invest before that.

This year, for the first time, we are introducing a standard for who an ecologist is. This is the person who makes decisions at the enterprise. This year we have a special SEC, we are the last industry that provides itself with such standards. Now these people will be more literate, and the preliminary calculations will be clearer.

"Russia's word is very weighty"

— Our country is huge, there are many borders, and we have observed situations when some events occur that did not seem to start in our country, but we come across this later. This year, saiga antelopes have arrived in huge numbers. What should I do with them? Last year, Orsk was where the wave also came mainly from Kazakhstan. How are such cross-border issues and problems solved?

— Saigas have not defected anywhere, migration occurs every year. Kazakhstan and I are having quite a big discussion on this topic on international platforms. The saiga is basically a protected red book animal. Kazakhstan has now raised questions on international platforms about changing the category of attitudes towards this species. Now we can already see that a fairly large number of the population has restored itself.

As soon as we understand that the population is not in danger, we will remove the restrictions of the Red Books: they cannot be hunted, they cannot be shot, and their numbers cannot be regulated. Now we understand that this is already a restored population, quite viable. Therefore, a lot of work is underway to revise the requirements of the Red Book. Some kind will remain. But scientists will confirm that someone no longer needs such strong protection. This will be regulated so that people can live normally, so that agriculture does not suffer.

This balance between ecology, nature, the protection of future generations and today's normal use of the natural environment by agriculture is the main task of the entire state apparatus.

— How well are our relations with our neighbors?

— We have good relations, we have international platforms where we discuss this. We communicate with all our colleagues. In our country, ecology is that part of the relationship that is absolutely not interrupted. We are represented on all international platforms, in all international agreements. CITES (Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora) regulates the transboundary movement of derivatives, that is, living and non—living representatives of flora and fauna. We grant this permission, we are the administrative body of CITES.

We have absolutely clear contacts, and they can hear us at all venues. Russia's word is very weighty. We can express our dissatisfaction if we get problems with cross-border issues, hear the problems of our neighbors and try to solve them together.

"Even unfriendly neighbors?"

— All the neighbors. The Council of Five will be in Greenland this year.

— Is it Danish Greenland yet?

— Yes, it's still Danish. For now, it will be Greenland, that is, Denmark, the USA, Canada, Norway and Russia. There will be five countries gathered this year. We have an invitation, we will discuss the habitat of the polar bear and the problems of the population.

We are not excluded from any dialogue, on the contrary, we are the leading country in this dialogue. We have this invitation, and we have all the contacts with colleagues, because in ecology it is impossible to separate borders. You will not divide the air, water, or forbid the river to flow somewhere because you have different political preferences. The globe is given to us all, and we must protect it. And those who take less care of it should be mobilized by their neighbors to ensure that the environment remains acceptable and convenient for each of us. We have not lost contacts and we are being heard.

Once again, Russia's word is very weighty, as the Basel Convention, at which we were represented in Geneva, has now shown. We are making a technical amendment there.

There are a number of countries that oppose us just because they don't like us, but it's impossible to argue this because the environment has very clear parameters. You can't say that you don't like the color of your skin, eyes, location, or any other things.

"Our regions are winning"

— You say that contacts have been established, and this year you have the fifth anniversary Ecology Award.

— And it represents 95 countries, 5 continents, both friendly and unfriendly. USA, England, Vietnam, almost all of South America, China, Asia.

— What ideas, what projects do you propose?

— There are a lot of ideas. This year and last year, children's projects are actually already the most important thing for us. I voted yesterday as a member of the jury, and I hope the Grand Prix will go to the guy who proposed the idea of collecting garbage in low-Earth orbit, because we have a problem with space debris, and it's worth thinking about.

"How old is he?"

— In my opinion, 16. We have a large category from 14 to 18 years old, many have offered real projects. We have a lot of real projects on air purification, water purification, population conservation, counting red books, and using artificial intelligence to identify them. These are big, smart jobs that are funded by companies, among other things.

When we select the winners, many companies believe that this project should be implemented, and this is also being done. All regions of Russia are represented, and this year we have reached a peak value of 320,000 works over 5 years. Multiply each by 3-4 participants, because no one does the work alone. If a child does this, then the parents are helping. If it's done by a team, it's already 8-10 people. If it is created by a teacher, then a large team also helps. We have more than 8,000 special children's institutions in the form of orphanages and boarding schools for children with disabilities. There is no separate category for them, they asked themselves to stay in the general category, and they are very active.

We have great prizes and gifts, but we can't bring foreign winners to us in any way, because either covid or they have some kind of restrictions. I hope that either this year of our awards or next year we will definitely bring a large number of foreign winners. A lot of guys from Italy, China and Latin America won last year. There are a lot of participants from Egypt and Eastern countries. The guys have very high-quality work.

Of course, our guys are there too. For the third year in a row, Moscow has failed to take the first place. This is surprising, because Moscow usually wins: a large population, high activity, easy accessibility, but not here. Our regions are winning. You should have seen the video the guys shot last year about Lake Baikal.

— Are the guys from Lake Baikal themselves?

— Yes, they are from Lake Baikal. They made a great film about how they see pollution, how they live there, and how they want to deal with it. Because for many who come there, it is a place of tourism, but for them it is home.

"We insist that technology should be available"

— We have already made materials about microplastics several times in our program. I still don't know if I should be afraid anymore. What to do with microplastics? Do we have any special studies on the presence of microplastics?

— Yes, we have special scientists. Sergey Lyulin, a representative of the St. Petersburg scientific group, is working with us, and we need to think about this. There are great global studies, and a huge agreement is being prepared to limit microplastic pollution.

Everyone was divided into two points of view. We say that there is no need to limit the production of hydrocarbons, the country's position is that production should expand. But at the same time, we must have decent and understandable schemes for the disposal of used products, that is, the very economy of a closed cycle, a circular economy. First of all, we must share technologies. If we have the technology to remove, remove, recycle, and return him to a second, third, or seventh life, then we need to share this.

The main discussion on global platforms speaks precisely about this, we insist that technologies should be available. Especially for small developing countries and island States. This is very important because small states do not have any plastic recycling facilities at all, which is a nightmare for them. We have it all, and we believe that pollution is a global problem. You should read up on what the great Pacific garbage patch is and how many such spots there are in the world's oceans right now, and what a problem this is for all of us. We have to think about it.

— This is the first time I've heard the word "udorbrentsy".

— All our fertilizer companies are also concerned about this, because everyone wants to be "green", and not in words. It's not the same ESG agenda that we fought against and thought it was such a greenwashing, that is, an absolute fake story.

— ESG — what is it?

— ESG — ecology, social and government, that is, your capabilities. This is all we had before when we talked about ecology, social culture, and career opportunities or access to opportunities provided by the state. Today we are talking about real ecology. And microplastics is a real ecology.

We need research, and we need a closed-loop economy. But the government has also thought about it, and the president has set clear goals. 100% of the waste generated by the population must be treated, and at least 50% must be disposed of.

— What year is this?

— This is by 2030. We have to do it all. Now the whole program is big, huge investments. Everything that we are currently collecting and expanding, the responsibility of manufacturers, is being spent on capacity modernization. We will receive more and more new capacities.